_chandler_'s blog

Don't let CF Ratings be a Joke!
By _chandler_, history, 5 years ago, In English

Ok,someone needs to say this!

I support all the new changes in the rating system except for one, which says divisions would be assigned by displayed ratings. This is a disaster! Please, change it!

Since, it's gonna take 6 contests for stabilisation of ratings,people whose true rating > 1600 would continue to give Div-3 and Div-4 contests. By the time, the rating stabilises, there are gonna be many undeserving Candidate Masters and Masters.

Trust me, it's gonna rain CMs! I believe majority of such false candidate masters would not give div-2/div-1 contests after that due to fear of fall. This would lead to degradation of a Candidate Master on Codeforces (just like 5-star coder on Codechef).

As Codechef has lost the credibility of their ratings due to Long Challenges, Codeforces is on the way to line up behind them, with the introduction of div-4 and now this.

It's my sincere request to MikeMirzayanov to look into this matter(at least don't let 1600+ contestants participate officially in div-3) and stop CF ratings from being a joke!

Note : Whatever I said about ratings being a joke does not apply to Masters and above.

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5 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -280 Vote: I do not like it

Codeforces rating has been a joke itself for a while. True programmers fight for github stars.

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +178 Vote: I do not like it

    True programmers dont fight they use bots to fetch those stars.

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5 years ago, # |
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there are gonna be many undeserving Candidate Masters and Masters

Doesn't make a sense, aren't the last changes just make the start point 1400 and instead of getting it once, getting it in 6 contests if the delta = 0 in each one?

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
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    Also if that's true, having many motivated CMs is better than having many depressed grays/greens

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5 years ago, # |
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I don't know has someone noticed or not CF rating has been increased(drastically) for everyone like there is more increment at the approximate same rank and previous rating ..I think it is happening due to the number of increased participation ..

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
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    yeah participation doubled so if you're higher rated than 1400 or so you basically get 2x the percentile. it's not a HUGE boost but it's def noticable (at the current level i am, i def only deserve like specialist lol)

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5 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +42 Vote: I do not like it

It was raining Masters recently, with so many people becoming yellow (including me). I feel like 2200 would be a better cutoff for Master, as I did not progress at all but somehow my rating got to 2100-2150 numbers.

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5 years ago, # |
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It's nowhere written that participants will be considered as official participants for div3 or div4 based on their displayed rating. They'll be judged according to the original rating and not the displayed one.

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5 years ago, # |
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True AF, i just dont deserve this rating.

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
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    Imposter Syndrome Bro.

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      5 years ago, # ^ |
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      I don't deserve being a Master, but i have to be a Grandmaster. LOL

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        5 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +12 Vote: I do not like it

        Dunning–Kruger effect

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          5 years ago, # ^ |
          ← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it -19 Vote: I do not like it

          Oh so that's what you think so? :) I say i have to be a Grandmaster(knowing what is my potential), if i were doing my best then i should have been a GM right now.

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            5 years ago, # ^ |
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            I hope that's true for you, but you can see we have had similar rating growth, have done similar problems on cf (i've done more problems outside cf than in cf too btw), and I practice everyday for a large amount of time, yet I am largely confident I don't deserve GM right now, so I find it hard to believe you do. This is exactly the kind of thinking Dunning-Kruger effect expects...

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              5 years ago, # ^ |
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              You are right, i had done a lot outside of cf, and i was busy last two weeks so i dont have much submission in cf in last two weeks. After all i was joking, i really dont deserve being a Grandmaster.

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5 years ago, # |
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We might soon get a "How I went from newbie to masters doing nothing" at this rate

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5 years ago, # |
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Pardon me if I am wrong, but aren't ratings going to be calculated from the true ratings? So if somebody with say 1600 true rating participates in a div4, they will get a significant drop imo. If they still increase, then they probably deserved that rating.

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
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    Yes, if they miss a problem, it will result in serious drop

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5 years ago, # |
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it's going to rain masters* from div3 grind

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5 years ago, # |
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" which says divisions would be assigned by displayed ratings "

Just wanted to clarify: Is this rule applied for all users or just new accounts? Sorry if its a dumb question!

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
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    hi

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      5 years ago, # ^ |
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      if you know can you tell the answer to it? Thanks in Advance!

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        5 years ago, # ^ |
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        your account was made before the new changes in the rating system so your displayed rating = true rating

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5 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -60 Vote: I do not like it

There are always people who cheat. They were before and they won't disappear even after the most brilliant change of rating algorithm. So my advice is to stop care about them. Simply participate in contests, improve your skills and have fun. If someone prefer to create another account just to create impression that he is better than he really is, I'm OK with that.

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
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    For one it's not cheating, it's called a rating system with a problem, and two, it is useful to know where you stand in the world if you're preparing for a competition like ioi or icpc, so accurate ratings to compare yourself are valued by many people

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      5 years ago, # ^ |
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      1) Creating new account only to get higher rating by participating in contests of easier divisions is cheating so please do not use such funny definitions as rating system with a problem. 2) If you are preparing for an important competition I believe you do it best as you can so knowing where you place in world rank won't change anything. Besides that this problem does not affect only you but all users excluding the top ones. And I believe that top ones does not waste their time caring about their rating. Instead they train hard so they can win contest no matter what the rating system is.

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        5 years ago, # ^ |
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        Instead they train hard so they can win contest no matter what the rating system is.

        Love your way of thinking about working hard and learning for the sake of it, but you even admit they train hard for the sake of winning, and what's the difference in vanity in training for rating or contest placement, especially if there's a good rating system. The fact is, while some people are motivated solely for learning, most people are at least also motivated by the desire to win, and rating is a great way to show you're doing that (or not doing that lol).

        Also this blog is not solely about creating a new account just for higher rating, it's about a problem with the rating system overplacing new accounts in general, and people creating new accounts just for higher rating is just a side effect of a bigger problem, so I believe you're the one using 'such funny definitions'.

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          5 years ago, # ^ |
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          Also this blog is not solely about creating a new account just for higher rating, it's about a problem with the rating system overplacing new accounts in general

          It's not a problem if they will continue to use this one account. Besides that, I haven't written that learning should be the only motivation. You misunderstood me. What I wanted to say is that top players do not waste their time for complaining about problems with rating system. As I wrote in my first comment I don't believe these problems can be solved.

          so I believe you're the one using 'such funny definitions'.

          I'm sorry if it hurt you.

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            5 years ago, # ^ |
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            If the new rating system is supposed to fix large rating drops at the beginning of people's cf journey, then having people become vastly overrated then drop is the exact same problem, and also many people only do a few contests and give up anyways, so it both makes people unmotivated and skews comparisons. Therefore the problem is outside making alt accounts, and is due to primarily actions that aren't cheating.

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5 years ago, # |
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I don't actually know how rating calculations in div 4 differ from normal contests (it should be though). But IMO div 4 is the worst idea Codeforces had in a while. I know Codeforces is trying to be beginner-friendly. But isn't div 3 enough already? So why? (besides the set of people that can officially participate in div 3 contests only differ from the one in div 4 of those in cyan). The introduction of div 4 contests are making div 3 looks really bad and unpurposeful (which is not, I love div 3 problems actually more than anything!).

There are a lot of approaches that make Codeforces beginner-friendly. One idea is to build a system of problems that beginners can train with and learn new things for them. Like, a tutorial with just trivial problems with some ifs, a for loops or maybe a little bit arithmetic for newbies to begin with (I'm imagining something looks like those tutorials in video games). After doing those easy problems, I'm 100% sure they are good enough to do a div 3, instead of making a whole new division JUST for them :)

This is the shocking move from Codeforces to repay its supporters after its 10 years anniversary.

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
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    I think the idea of Div4 is not bad, it is just that there is no good way to fit it into the existing framework without ugly side effects, and the way it has been implemented isn't even the "least bad" one.

    What exactly is wrong with Div4? One way to look at it is "Somewhat easier div3", where the "somewhat easier" part justifies "somewhat lower rated bound". It is not like everyone is solving everything in div3. Maybe the naming isn't perfect, but on a high level I see nothing wrong with setters being like "We estimate that our contest is too easy for participants with rating X or above, so it is unrated for them".

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
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    The idea to make some beginner-friendly set of problems is very cool actually.

    I'm glad that I started participating in CF rounds only after a year of solving Timus. I already had some experience with solving problems, so the only thing I had to learn is how to do it with clock ticking.

    Maybe it is good to tell newbies (either new users or people with low rating) "Hey, participating in rounds should be a frustrating experience for you, we suggest you to solve some problems from this list instead! This way you will gain some experience and will have much more fun when you'll return to rounds".

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5 years ago, # |
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zeus0106

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5 years ago, # |
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I might be wrong, but wouldn't max rating gain make some rating problems smaller. For example if you participate in div x your new rating after the contest cannot exceed that division's upper bound?

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5 years ago, # |
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Chandler talking about 'no joke'. Ironic, huh?

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    5 years ago, # ^ |
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    That's Monica speaking, buddy and Monica doesn't like mess !!

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5 years ago, # |
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One possible idea is to find people who do REALLY well in a contest and just give them the whole +1400 points right then and here to stop this effect — the goal of the new system is to make sure people feel improvement so if they start out at a level that is way greater than 1400, then they will feel improvement without the new system. Then nobody can exploit these contests more than once.

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5 years ago, # |
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isdvhb Hi, xD

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