justtopostthis's blog

Codechef's rating system is broken.
By justtopostthis, history, 3 years ago, In English

Division 1 ranges from codeforces specialists to LGMs which makes no sense. Your opinions?

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +27 Vote: I do not like it

Pupil's to LGM*

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +19 Vote: I do not like it

    I personally know a few Newbies who are Codechef Div1

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +1 Vote: I do not like it

You're not presenting it the right way, I doubt there's any stable 5 star isn't atleast an expert here

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +20 Vote: I do not like it

    That seems correct. Though, pitting experts against LGMs is still an issue. IMO, atcoder's rating system is the most balanced.

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      3 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it -18 Vote: I do not like it

      Well if we're talking about division 1 then it ranges from candidate masters to LGMs, so yeah there's some inflation in codechef ratings but not to the extent that is portrayed here.

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        3 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

        Candidate masters can also participate in Edu. and Div2 rounds which makes the transition smooth. Nonetheless, I agree that IGMs and LGMs should have their separate division (like in case of AGC), since masters and candidate masters are just fodder for them most of the time.

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          3 years ago, # ^ |
          ← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +37 Vote: I do not like it

          So you want that codechef should create a new division for just 20 people (that's the no of LGM and IGM in typical cookoff/ltime)? Just because you feel that you cant solve hardest problems in div1 contest.

          Divisions make sense when we have good rating distribution.

          If no of participants are too less, rating distribution wont be good irrespective of type of rating system.

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            3 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

            My statement regarding LGMs and IGMs was actually with respect to codeforces.

            What I want is to make Div1 more exclusive. Many people quit codechef on reaching division 1 because it gives them a sense of achievement. Maybe make Div1 for 6 star and 7 star only.

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              3 years ago, # ^ |
              ← Rev. 4   Vote: I like it +24 Vote: I do not like it

              You haven't understood the underlying problem. You have seen one issue and believe that doing XYZ should resolve that problem. So let me elaborate on it.

              What you have seen is some college seniors, who are specialists/experts on cf and 5/6 stars on cc. For you(?) and those seniors, 5 stars is a very big deal because it's div1 and now they are in an elite div1 club (the same club in which tourist participates), so they don't have any incentive to participate in cc. But you know for the fact that they are just specialists/experts. They arent good to the level they believe they are, to the level they are hyping it. So cc should introduce something which can diminish that hype. One solution you have come up with is that CodeChef should introduce a new division, and push all these people into a division 2. So that they can no longer be in the same club and there would be something for them to try higher. Then you have also seen that these problems don't exist on cf and atcoder. cf and atcoder has something different, so if cc simply copies it, these issues would be automatically resolved. Correct me, if I haven't understood the problem correctly.

              Now, let me change the frame of reference. Present this problem from a different perspective.

              Let's look at the top active participants on CodeChef, codeforces and atcoder.
              (Sidenote — They have recently introduced this “active participants”, kudos to them)

              Codeforces -
              1. Tourist
              2. X
              3. Y
              …
              628. Aryanc403
              …

              Atcoder -
              1. Tourist
              2. A
              3. B
              …
              1092. Aryanc403
              …

              CodeChef -
              1. Tourist
              2. F
              3. G
              …
              63. Aryanc403
              …

              Because these 565 (or 1029) people who are above me on codeforces (or atcoder), simply don't care about codechef. I would remain gLoBaL 63rd In CoMpEtItIvE pRoGrAmMiNg On CoDeChEf (and I can brag about it whether you like it or not, whether I’m skilled enough or not) irrespective of the type of rating system. Changing the rating system to atcoder or codeforces cannot magically change that 63 to 628 (or 1092). The ONLY way to change this is to bring those 565 (or 1029) to codechef, so that they can push me down. Everything else is just an adhoc and temporary fix and can never resolve these issues from the core.

              Codechef rating system isn't a problem here, it isn't broken. The skill level of participants at top is too diverse compared to codeforces/atcoder because of a very very less no of participants, it cannot be fixed magically by just changing some random constants (i.e. boundaries of divisions or stars etc, etc) which is proposed in comments on this blog.

              Spoiler
              Spoiler

              TL;DR — To create an "exclusive" club, the very first requirement is there should be people who can be present in that club.

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            3 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it +27 Vote: I do not like it

            As an IGM that doesn't even look at codechef problems anymore I support this comment.

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            3 years ago, # ^ |
              Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

            On a related note , why do so less people participate in Div 1 on CodeChef?

            It's lower than 500 most of the times

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              3 years ago, # ^ |
                Vote: I like it +3 Vote: I do not like it

              Many reach 5 stars and quit because it looks great on their resume, then never participate so the account stays at 5 stars. There are also people who skip contests if the problems seem hard. An easier first problem gets more participation. you can look at the previous rounds.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +22 Vote: I do not like it

But still there are very few people participating in the div 1 contests even though they are very rare. I don't think such a small number can be broken down further

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +18 Vote: I do not like it

Codechef really does not provide much to the "true" Div. 1, so it's kinda fine.

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