codemastercpp's blog

Should "Contribution" be renamed?
By codemastercpp, history, 3 years ago, In English

First of all congrats to sus for breaking into the top 10 contributors. I think it's a great thing because now maybe people would be less biased towards downvoting low-rated people's posts and comments.

But it sheds light on a pedantic issue, the term "contribution" is misleading, as only some part of it is earned through actual contributions, and other part is earned through shitpost or just by being higher rated.

So now what should it be renamed to?

I'll suggest Reputation, as it fits it more. This way it'd be natural to assume people with higher reputations either contribute a lot, are just higher rated, do quality shitpost, or a combination of all these.

New people won't feel bad about losing reputation by asking a stupid bugaboo, as it's natural, but losing contribution on asking a stupid question must be weird IMO.

Feel free to add your suggestions, and ur reasoning behind it.

P.S: As I said, it's a minor issue, and nothing would be affected even if it stays as it is.

  • Vote: I like it
  • +472
  • Vote: I do not like it

Comments Comments (52)
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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +60 Vote: I do not like it

Seems valid. Upvoted you.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +87 Vote: I do not like it

reputation = -24 :(

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -31 Vote: I do not like it

no it should be renamed to Writer , like people if he knows what other like are tends to get upvoted , I have -110 contribution at one times ,and then after I know this blog shit i have gone to peak at +71 , so its all about who write how much shitty blog and how good , and yes there are few respected people who write good blogs but they are less , like right now in top10 contribution , except tourist and errichto and awoo , everyone is either due to shitpost or other website contest post

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +20 Vote: I do not like it

    Not meaning to be rude, but it helps to have a better grasp on English. Articulating points clearly is just as good as having good points in the first place.

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3 years ago, # |
← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +118 Vote: I do not like it

Shouldn't 'Friend of' be changed to 'Stalked by' as well?
Even 'Followed by' would be better imo.

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +17 Vote: I do not like it

    True. I don't even know who friend me. So, how am I a friend? Follwers/followed by would be great IMO

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
    ← Rev. 2   Vote: I like it +27 Vote: I do not like it

    "Stalked by" has a rather negative connotation, so this option is out.

    "Followed by", however, seems like a good idea, because "following" implies a one-directional relationship, which is basically what the "Codeforces friends" are. No users actually know the people who starred/friended them, so "Codeforces friends" is simply not a very precise term.

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

    I'd really love to see who has added me as a friend, perhaps doing this might actually make the term "friend" more fitting.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +17 Vote: I do not like it

"Top contributor" changes to what then?

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +200 Vote: I do not like it

Lol, years of red+ people farming upvotes by shitposting, and no one says a thing. Suddenly, a grey does it and everyone has an issue with everything...

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +35 Vote: I do not like it

    I've had this issue earlier as well, but what always stopped me from this was most of the reds that farmed contribution by shitposts also did infact contribute in form of contest setting(problem setting + testing + coordination + editorials), meaningful blogs etc.

    I've also had seen some blogs where the meaning of contribution was questioned, so I found it unnecessary to discuss them again for no reason.

    Why do I do it now? I explained in the first few lines of the blog, with a newbie being a top contributor with zero "contributions" it makes people question the meaning of "contribution" again. And I'm also suggesting a better alternative which is more meaningful IMO.

    Also to be clear, I've no problem with sus ofc, and like I already mentioned in the blog I think it's great that a newbie of all people is among top contributor lists. An unrated person would have been even better but we don't always get what we want.

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      3 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

      IMO they're still contributions, if not direct, indirect. Cheering people with some fun content is always appreciated. Good mood also brings good performance, I think

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        3 years ago, # ^ |
          Vote: I like it +45 Vote: I do not like it

        IMO they're still contributions, if not direct, indirect. Cheering people with some fun content is always appreciated. Good mood also brings good performance, I think

        Sure, but why don't you do all your cheering on sites that are meant for cheering? Why not post "anime versions of Top Programmers" on Instagram or Reddit instead? Why do it on a website that is meant for "competitive programming"? Is it logical? I do not think so. The top contributors are at the top, because, they contibuted something to the community. Have you ever seen tourist come up with blogs like "why do companies not provide underwear as rewards? oH mY GoD wE wiLl SoOn bE nAkeD" or Errichto come up with blogs like "wHaT iF tOp cOnTRibUtoRS wErE in the Justice league or Avengers?" The closest I have seen to a shitpost was from Um_nik, and it was about the topics he did not know. I learnt a lot that day, even though I may not have fully understood what is a Li-Chao segment tree, or what is a Van-Emde-Boa's Tree.

        The recent rise of our "grey" user to the top 10 of the contributor board right now just shows the herd mentality of the common people. Everyone did it just because others were doing it, not because we wanted to.

        Before downvoting me, please read my comment again. If you still think that what I said was illogical, please go ahead and downvote me.

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          3 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it +6 Vote: I do not like it

          I think the only way to have a "fair" contribution system would be if only the Codeforces staff would give out contribution points (eg. +20 for round coordinator, +5 for authoring a problem in round, +1 for testing, +3 for tutorial blogs, etc).

          Until then, human nature will make sure of:

          • high contribution just for memes

          • ratism

          • low rated users upvoting a grey in order to get the satisfaction of having a low rated user break into the red-only leaderboard

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          3 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

          Sorry, but I forgot the point in codeforces' terms and conditions where it was mentioned that such content is NOT allowed, therefore I don't feel the need to post elsewhere. Also, I personally have a single blog, discussing ambiguity in a solutions behaviour. So, before asking ME to post elsewhere, learn comprehension, and if you can't comprehend things and just have to point fingers, do whatever. I don't care much for your opinion. The fact that some people can't digest the present scenario has nothing to do with its legibility.

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          3 years ago, # ^ |
            Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

          sus deserves his spot. Try entertaining a bunch of programmers without sounding stupid or "nerdy". It's hard.

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

    In history, we always have seen Rich people's dominance over poor people, which should be changed!

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      3 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it +14 Vote: I do not like it

      But most importantly stupidity should not dominate.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +7 Vote: I do not like it

Just another suggestion that could go with this, "Popularity", the only thing I would like to add to this is, if someone has a negative contribution, reputation might be a tad bit unpleasant to hear. Like to say that "xyz" has a very low or negative reputation might sound a little belittling, but anyway just wanted to add my opinion

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +18 Vote: I do not like it

I agree, 'contibution' is really misleading, I have +73 contribution and all of that comes through my comments which aren't informative/educational in any way. I am really surprised how shitposting can get you to such a high contibution.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +7 Vote: I do not like it

imagine having negative reputation... guess im a criminal now

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +28 Vote: I do not like it

I guess you will earn positive reputation with this post.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

maybe just remove contribution, there will be less shitposts.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +25 Vote: I do not like it

A more Reddit-esque way of naming such a thing might be more suited to these purposes, since reputation is a bit weird imo, and the contribution-counting for both websites is pretty elusive. As with the problems v/s questions controversy, it might make sense to take something that's unrelated to both contribution and reputation, with the advantage that for most people it reflects what it really means — upvotes increase your "contribution" but "contribution" doesn't sound as precise as it should. Calling people with the highest contributions the most upvoted would also make sense.

Removing contribution (as suggested by some of the comments) sounds like a bad idea to me, since it motivates people to write good blogs about certain topics quite a bit, and taking away such extrinsic motivation might decrease the high quality content codeforces has.

A more "ratist" (and resource-intensive as well as a bit impractical) idea would be to filter upvotes by the rating of who upvoted the post (maybe a coarse grained division like Div1 and Div2 would work as well), and have separate leaderboards for those. I'm aware that upvotes by higher rated people have more weight in the total upvote count, however, the noise is still quite a lot imo.

Having separate leaderboards might also help in finding users whose blog posts were potentially useful for some rating range, and having separate ratings for blogs would further help in this. For instance, most blogs discussing very basic things won't be of any interest to higher rated people (unless they're for teaching purposes), and most blogs discussing advanced stuff won't be of any interest to lower rated people (if they're not comfortable with easier stuff that's usually needed to get to Div1, I suspect it doesn't make much sense to look at those blogs for them, unless out of curiosity; but it's definitely not the best way to learn).

As far as shitposts are concerned, it seems like "how seriously you take CF blogs" and "how seriously you take CP" are orthogonal, so unless someone comes up with a reliable way to measure the first metric, it's probably impossible to get rid of noise.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -10 Vote: I do not like it

Like seriously , has this guy contributed more to the community than Errichto?

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -10 Vote: I do not like it

    Its also of fault that contribution decays over 6 months period to half. He used to also have 200+ a couple months ago.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -13 Vote: I do not like it

sus uses bots to boost his comments. If codeforce posting and contribution system were to work based on common sense rather than being an ALDI reddit, I would have been top 10 alread,y lol??

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -10 Vote: I do not like it

Reputation: No hair.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it -26 Vote: I do not like it

It seems to be like Avengers vs some serious movie kind of debate. Sus writes well polished and funny blogs which could entertain grays and lgms the same way, while when someone provides a good blog on some high-level technique, most of us lower ranked guys won't really comprehend that and won't upvote it. Similarly, Avengers will be good enough to buy a ticket for whether you are blown away or just like it while some artistic movie might not suit everyone. I don't know how to fix the problem with movies since putting higher prices on tickets might not be a good idea, but I don't see the problem in rating comments (since you put the same amount of resources into giving higher and lower grades). For example, I would give +1 for a funny post, +3 for his blog about making appealing blogs, and 4 or 5 for some good tutorial I understood or a contest announcement (unless the contest has unreadable English which happens althoughrarely). That way I'm sure Errichto and Radewoosh would stay closer to the top.

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +40 Vote: I do not like it

    For example, I would give +1 for a funny post, +3 for his blog about making appealing blogs, and 4 or 5 for some good tutorial I understood or a contest announcement

    In practice with 5-star rating systems (which are kinda similar), people tend to mostly only use the highest and lowest options, so I'm not sure it would change the bigger picture that much.

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3 years ago, # |
← Rev. 5   Vote: I like it +10 Vote: I do not like it

I do quite agree to this post. The only community that I know of that has managed to really connect the upvotes vaguely to actual contribution is StackOverflow (and other sites from that family of sites). By vaguely I mean that getting positive upvotes pretty much does mean actual contribution, but I don't think there is any real formula between the amount of upvotes and actual contribution.

However, I don't think that is entirely possible for Codeforces. I think the main issue is that it isn't a question-and-answer site. In fact, Codeforces hosts various contests. People feel the need to unwind at the very least the frustration from not getting something right, feeling like particular bugaboos weren't good enough. What better place to rant than the announcement? That part already makes it a whole lot less professional and more emotional.

Secondarily, it is true I haven't been on StackOverflow for long, as my knowledge of programming languages isn't evolved enough to answer a lot of questions. But the sensation of a real community is lesser on StackOverflow than Codeforces. Is it really that bad to have a community? A community can bring people back and keep people in longer. So, do shitposts really have an entirely negative effect?

Beyond renaming contribution, I'd also suggest this: I think the main reason that contribution was named contribution was to encourage the publication of important posts. These do indeed get overshadowed by shitposts. Instead, what I'd suggest is maybe a contest every month or so where people nominate and vote on actual important posts and if the posts get beyond a particular amount of votes (and are accepted by staff) they'll be saved in a rather visible part of the site instead of possibly lost in the sea of shitposts and not as important blogs.

Perhaps also remake the top contributors to not have the ones with top likes, but with top accepted (saved) blogs.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it 0 Vote: I do not like it

The case of sus really shows that the contribution system is flawed in some way. That is, it doesn't represent usefulness of a member in the community.

I also think that some contribution points could be given for such activities as holding contents, uploading trainings to the gym and testing Codeforces rounds, as these things are useful to make Codeforces better and increase the number of problems here. Maybe it could be a rating system independent of contribution.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +68 Vote: I do not like it

Why do you even care? I have top contributors list hidden since the possibility was created.

And don't be jealous of sus, they produce great content and their upvotes are well-deserved. (Last 2-3 posts were made just to get to arbitrary top-10, so the quality is lower, but I suppose they were peer-pressured into doing that). And yes, it shows uncomfortable truth about ratism: blogs from greys are downvoted because they are (mostly) shit, not because they are from greys.

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it +13 Vote: I do not like it

    can confirm i did peer pressure sus into getting top 10

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -25 Vote: I do not like it

    lmao im getting botted downvotes I got like -300 on all my blogs but cf anti botting gave like ~250ish back

    Imagine caring so much about a random highschooler that you dedicated hours of your day to botting his anime blogs with unrated accounts (unrated = don't loose contrib)

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      3 years ago, # ^ |
        Vote: I like it -21 Vote: I do not like it

      weebs are a menace to society so I would argue on behalf of the botter that it's time well spent.

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    3 years ago, # ^ |
      Vote: I like it -10 Vote: I do not like it

    The word contribution have always kinda bugged me as not so accurate just like friends system, so I thought this was perfect opportunity to raise this point.

    Regardless just to be clear I'm not jealous of sus or anyone else who gets upvotes by shitposting, I mean I do the same myself :p but yes many people are jealous so I understand why you might have thought so.

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3 years ago, # |
  Vote: I like it +2 Vote: I do not like it

Initially when I joined CF I assumed "contribution" was given only to people who wrote contests, then I started getting contribution without writing anything. Surely felt weird.

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